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| Author: | icom1020 [ Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fire departments dropping pagers... |
http://urgentcomm.com/mobile_data/news/ ... id=mostpop Some fire departments and rescue squads are dropping their pagers in favor of an emergency dispatch solution that allows messages to be transmitted onto a host of mobile devices that fire officials already carry around. Omnilert, the maker of a unified notification system known as Amerilert, can rattle off a number of fire departments that have adopted its system. The primary draw is the fact that firefighters can receive messages on their cell phones rather than carrying around a pager. Moreover, the Web-based access means a command officer can use his BlackBerry or any computer rather than being tied to an in-house network computer to send alerts. "Fire departments are ditching pagers and contracts to buy Amerilert because the squad members are asking the fire departments to send alerts to their cell phone and they don't want to carry a separate pager," said Omnilert spokesman Bryan Crum. The Countryside Fire Protection District in Vernon Hills, Ill., deployed the system to its 85 personnel and uses it on a daily basis for emergency alerts — such as requests for additional personnel at a fire scene — and routine messaging. "Our people were asking for the ability to get messages to their cell phones instead of having to carry a separate device. ... We alert people if a vehicle is out of service for maintenance, if shift coverage is need, about overtime opportunities, and a lot of different things," said Jim Dinsch, information systems coordinator for the district. The McLane/Black Lake Fire Department in Olympia, Wash., has more than 100 members in its department, and the system allows the department to coordinate its multiple groups — ranging from volunteer personnel to state fire mobilization groups. The two agencies report that the system hasn't experienced any failures. Omnilert said it uses redundant servers and pushes messages out via multiple wireless operators, and through Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP), the Internet standard for e-mail transmission across IP networks. |
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| Author: | Beaconhunter [ Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Don't cell phones become unreliable during times of crisis (earthquake, etc.) due to excessive traffic on the network and other factors? I know that even Nextel (now Sprint) which has a lot of public safety subscribers is careful to point out that their systems are not intended for mission critical applications and suggest that their devices be used to supplement, not replace, traditional land mobile systems. |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Beaconhunter wrote: Don't cell phones become unreliable during times of crisis (earthquake, etc.) due to excessive traffic on the network and other factors? I know that even Nextel (now Sprint) which has a lot of public safety subscribers is careful to point out that their systems are not intended for mission critical applications and suggest that their devices be used to supplement, not replace, traditional land mobile systems. Ding! Number crunchers don't see that... they see reduced site maintenance and lower costs... They'll learn when SHTF... |
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| Author: | Wilrobnson [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
TechnoWeenie wrote: They'll learn when SHTF... Doubt it. They'll learn of the system failures due to overloading and non-redundant systems, etc, and start looking to throw money at the 'situation' to resolve it. And then along comes a Motorola salesman... |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Wilrobnson wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: They'll learn when SHTF... Doubt it. They'll learn of the system failures due to overloading and non-redundant systems, etc, and start looking to throw money at the 'situation' to resolve it. And then along comes a Motorola salesman... LOL. threadjack This reminds me, I had talked to a FD about getting replacement pagers. A few officers were pissed because the issued pagers (Advisors) were going to ^%$.....since that's how they're notified when not in range for the minitors.. new pagers were a must. They voted and declined the purchase... I resubmitted the proposal, instead of 'pager' I called it a 'Critical Incident Management Notification System'. The proposal was approved. LOL /threadjack |
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| Author: | Vizwar [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
AAPC responds on our members behalf to the recent article in Urgent Communications To: Mr. Glenn Bischoff Editor, Urgent Communications Dear Mr. Bischoff: The American Association of Paging Carriers (AAPC), the national association dedicated to representing and advancing the paging industry, read with interest Urgent Communications’ July 8, 2009, article entitled “Fire Departments Dropping Pagers in Favor of Emergency Dispatch Solution.” While AAPC is pleased that the paging industry has received press coverage from Urgent Communications, we are obligated to comment on certain assertions made within the article. Foremost is the suggestion that an abundance of fire departments are discontinuing the use of their pagers in favor of a specific product offered by Omnilert. The paging industry has had a long and well regarded relationship with fire fighters, one that is built on a strong demand for dependable service and the unique features that paging provides, including common group codes, coverage, reliability and speed. Fire Departments are some of the most prolific users of large group paging, which requires a common code for simultaneous (versus sequential) transmission. In fact, a very large number of pagers in use today nationally are used by fire departments, many of whom simply will not rely on cellular service during critical emergencies. The reliability of paging technology is not an issue as thousands of fire fighters and the communities they serve may attest. We understand why certain fire personnel would want to reduce the number of devices they carry and make the decision to switch their personal messaging to a cell phone or other device rather than a pager. However, we find it troubling if that person were also responsible to the public and the choice is made based on the promise of service equality. Service providers have the responsibility to inform their customers of the difference in service they are likely to experience. Many paging system operators have the ability to forward messages to other devices such as cell phones, but with the appropriate advice to their users about the potential delays or failure to receive the message. We support the appropriate use of technology for the application and fully agree e-mail (SMTP) and SMS play a vital role in routine communications, but not necessarily when the information requirement is immediate. Commercial, and most private paging service, is provided on dedicated paging channels which are not shared with two-way voice, video or high density data traffic which can congest the channel as it does with cellular. Finally, as you are aware, it is well documented that paging was the most dependable means of communications for first responders during times of great emergency such as 9/11, Katrina and the NYC subway and London bombings. Paging is one of the vital technologies listed by the Federal Government in the Warning Alert and Response Network (WARN) Act for national and local alerting of emergency messages. Paging services save lives every day. We appreciate this opportunity to share our views with you. Given the instrumental role Urgent Communications plays within the wireless industry, particularly with respect to critical public safety news, we hope that you will rely on AAPC in the future for news associated with paging products, emergency services, regulatory activities and technology developments. Please visit our web site at http://www.pagingcarriers.org, and feel free to contact me. We look forward to working with you. Picture (Metafile) Scott Forsythe President 303-768-9673 scott@selectpath.com |
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| Author: | FireDawg89 [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
I can say that most Fire agencies in Snohomish County use Digital Pagers. A lot of Departments have gotten rid of the Motorola Advisor II's and are using Scope pagers. They are user programable and can hold 8 addresses (Cap Codes) Every now and then one of the pagers will miss a page, but never all 3 pagers or the station page or the radio. So you do have a 3 different ways to be notified. |
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| Author: | TechnoWeenie [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
FireDawg89 wrote: I can say that most Fire agencies in Snohomish County use Digital Pagers. A lot of Departments have gotten rid of the Motorola Advisor II's and are using Scope pagers. They are user programable and can hold 8 addresses (Cap Codes) Every now and then one of the pagers will miss a page, but never all 3 pagers or the station page or the radio. So you do have a 3 different ways to be notified. A little misleading, as pagers still use conventional pocsag/flex...They use a digital format, but those digital formats have been used for ages.... Back east, all the agencies maintained their OWN paging systems, that alerted inside the county and slightly into neighboring counties. They were responsible for upkeep, upgrades,etc. and it works well, since they own the tower space for their voice/data system ANYWAY.....Contracting with a private carrier would cost tons more money than utilizing/building out their own system. What I think is happening here, is smaller departments/volly organizations who ARE NOT on a county system, and are paying a private company to do the paging, are paying big $$$$... Something they want to get away from. texting is great, but nothing will compare to the reliability and simplicity of a minitor and a county run alphanumeric paging system. |
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| Author: | chpalmer [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
TechnoWeenie wrote: Back east, all the agencies maintained their OWN paging systems, that alerted inside the county and slightly into neighboring counties. They were responsible for upkeep, upgrades,etc. and it works well, since they own the tower space for their voice/data system ANYWAY.....Contracting with a private carrier would cost tons more money than utilizing/building out their own system. What I think is happening here, is smaller departments/volly organizations who ARE NOT on a county system, and are paying a private company to do the paging, are paying big $$$$... Something they want to get away from. texting is great, but nothing will compare to the reliability and simplicity of a minitor and a county run alphanumeric paging system. But directed to the general audience... All my county systems do quick call II here. And Im hearing Kitsap's tones now as I type... Truthfully- no "one way" paging format is as reliable in questionable coverage situations as QCII. And two way systems do go down during catastrophic events... ( weather, equipment failures ect. Anyone who doesnt take into account these possible failures needs to take a step back. I still remember seeing VHF equipment hitting Ebay from a fire department in New York. They stated they were going to a commercial two-way service we are all familiar with... I remember how this hit me like a ton of bricks and how bad an idea I thought it was. Then 9/11 happened. I cant say whether or not that particular department was involved but I remember the discussions we had at work about it beforehand, and how I wondered and worried as I watched the news... Fact is- a snowstorm can bring a cellular system to its knees. US Mobility has not chosen every site they're on by whether or not the site has backup power, nor are they required to. We have 3 backup systems at one county Im contracted with. All designed to set off the pagers at the very least. The guys know their tones. If they hear a simple BLS tone, and the audio doesnt make it to them for some reason, they still know some information and can make a phone call. If they hear fire tones, they can get the trucks manned and be out the gate as they attempt to get more information. If they miss the digital page, they'd never know it. (steps down off soap box) |
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| Author: | jrw14493 [ Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
And stepping down even lower to say, Yakima County where ALL fire protection outside the city limits is volunteer dispatched by Moneyolla Minitor voice pagers, I would hate to see what would happen if we went to text messaging on cell phones. Mountainous areas such as up in the Nile that have NO cell service would be SOL. Or for that matter -- in cities where there is no cell service... Personally, I see no advantage to dropping voice via VHF frequency and tones and going to alpha-numeric via cell phone. The only thing I like from what I've seen are the call details that you can read -- the same thing dispatch tells you when you call en-route. |
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| Author: | PRESTONBJ [ Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Here is Grant County the pagers used are the Minitor V and the Advisor II. Still have some agencies using Minitor II and III. Kittitas & Okanogan are using Minitor V as well. Putting on my salesman hat here ... I sell new Minitor V and Advisor II. If anyone is interested, please ask! |
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| Author: | FireDawg89 [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Motorola Minitors is OLD SCHOOL ! Show me a MOTOROLA Minitor that can be Tone activated on the 800 Mhz system. This is why fire departments went to digital pagers. |
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| Author: | FireDawg89 [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
Why would you want a Motorola Advisor II when you can self program a Scope Digital Pager with up to 8 cap codes? |
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| Author: | N7QOR [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
chpalmer wrote: Fact is- a snowstorm can bring a cellular system to its knees. Or a large public event. Anyone down at Seafair this weekend with AT&T cellular service was hosed. Couldn't make calls, couldn't receive calls, didn't even receive voice mail notifications for - quite literally - hours. Got one of the best laughs I've ever had from them though. Complaint received: "xxx says his credit card machines quit working during the Airshow, don't work again until after the airshow" (which is basically all day with a few 1 hour breaks for boat racing). Thinks they are "transmitting something that 'blocks' the CC machines". Turns out the vendor uses cellular based CC machines for authorizations. Couldn't nail down carrier with certainty but "thinks" it is AT&T. Nexthell worked pretty well (except the battery dies in like 5 hours - different problem), and Verizon customers also reported cellular joy. We are scheduled to dump AT&T this week. Wanted to wait until after the weekend. Wish I hadn't... |
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| Author: | FireDawg89 [ Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fire departments dropping pagers... |
If I remember right the entire Seattle 800 Mhz TRS went down during the Nisqually Quake. |
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