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That can follow the offset band plan that Motorola is now offering ? It puts out different control channel info. It causes the scanner or hacked radio to not work correctly.

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I generate Board Warnings

RS pro 97 can be set up for normal and offset.

[quote="Sean"]That can follow the offset band plan that Motorola is now offering ?

What I should have said is Shuffled Band Plans. It's part of the new CPS and Advanced System Key. Offset is used in the border areas with Mexico.

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I generate Board Warnings

All the current model Uniden/Bearcat and Radio Shack scanners seem to be able to scan the proper "offset" border area channels. San Diego County/City - Imperial County - and San Bernardino Counties in California all use "offset" border zone channels -- like 860.125, 860.15, etc.

Apparently this process adds another quirk: the talkgroup numbers are dynamically reassigned with each conversation, just like the frequencies.
uf da

Looks like we are talking about -- two -- different subjects or issues. All present model "trunking" scanners will track the "Border Zone" offset channels: (ie: 860.125, 860.15, etc.) and all talk groups are the same as normal talkgroups. ( 816, 912, 1008, 1040, 9008, 9040, etc.). ----If you are asking or refering to any "Re-banding" subject -- no one will know -- until some system changes over to the new frequencies. San Diego County, City and Imperial County share a wide area digital Motorola trunked system with "border zone offsets" and standard talkgroups. San Bernardino County also has a wide area Motorola trunked system on "non-standard" business and public safety channels - and again standard talkgroups.

Maybe this will be of use:

"

http://www.motorola.com/governmentanden ... s_V1_1.pdf

so, nothing to do with the border areas. everything to do with a way to make trunk trackers useless. J

We are talking "re-banding" and the answer is ---- No one knows -- forsure. The article is "Motorola speak" to confirm that certain "Motorola models" will still be able to program new "re-banded" spectrum / frequencies -- in the "border zone". It only confirms that certain Motorola radios will work -- after being "re-banded". It is not some new "anti-scanner" program. Not to worry.

so if they say "The Shuffled band plan is intended to help prevent unauthorized system monitoring and access on Shuffled Band Plan enabled systems"

that mean that you cant take a old moto radio and hack into the system to broadcast or that the upgrade to the firmware of scanners wont work with 'spread spectrum' of the talk groups.

I dont see how the radio can spread the talk groups and a scanner not be able to decode it unless they encrypt the control channel or something.

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If I had an antenna, I would; but I can only transmit on 160 meters.
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DE K7MHI

Here's the scoop.

When a Motorola control channel issues a voice grant, it will put the channel number over the air. If it assigns 851.0125 as voice it will put out a hex 001 for the channel assignment. Shuffled band plans allow the system operator to offset the channel numbers. The main reason operators do this is to prevent hacked radios from using the system. Yes it's a shocker, but some of you have them. I've even met some of you.

If you use the new Advanced System Key, you can set the radios up for SBP. No amount of bit banging, or labtools will allow you to use the system. I'm being told that it's built into the CPS and the ASK. And you must have both.

It would be fairly easy to modify trunker or some of the other apps to do this. The question is still "Is there a trunking scanner capable of following a SPB system ?"

One more tidbit. There are a couple of reasons this keep coming up in rebanding discussions. You have to touch every radio anyway, you have to audit your system, you have to touch every site, and Motorola keeps laying people off. It is a prime time to make a system adjustment, but has nothing to do with the spectrum swap.

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I generate Board Warnings

Looks like I will need one of these 'Advanced System Key' things. Please forward mine to me. I have missed being able to talk to the law enforcment community.

looks like i need to pay uniden RD so i can keep my hobby

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If I had an antenna, I would; but I can only transmit on 160 meters.
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DE K7MHI

What's interesting to me is, MPT-1327 has always offered this capability.

It is a part of the design of the protocol and was implemented for greater flexibility across a wider frequency spectrum, not to prevent "unauthorized monitoring", however it does have the effect of making it harder to hack a system and monitor it.

Even so, Moneyrola fought tooth and nail to keep that protocol (MPT 1327) out of the US for well over 20 years, effectively sticking our taxpayers with an "inferior" (and proprietary) product.

Even if a Trunker type product is able to follow the shuffled band plan, it could be difficult to hack, initially. Even trying to hack an LTR system, as simple as LTR is, can be difficult for the same reason, and that is, one must determine which DFA number (or trunking channel number) = which frequency before being able to track the traffic. (I think some of the LTR capable Unidens make this easier though)

However once that information has been discovered (and posted to the Internet) the entire benefit derived from "shuffling" the DFA-Frequency table is lost.

I wonder how many extra tax $$ Moneyrola will extort from agencies whose system managers who do not have the ability to understand this?

Seems like a short range solution at best.

What I wonder more than anything is, what defines the "unauthorized monitoring" that the big /$\ /$\ is talking about?

Last I read, it is still legal to monitor these systems, unless the customer chooses encryption. Which is another joke, but only in the sense that widespread use of encryption has the effect of pricing most users out of the market. Even for those who play with the public's money.

I met many a small to medium sized public entity that suffered severe sticker shock when adding up the cost to equip all portables and mobiles with encryption.

Happy scanning!